Jiang Kun, a well-known Xiangsheng actor in Beijing, and Lai Shengchuan, a modern drama director from Taiwan, seem to have nothing at all to do with each other. However, the Beijing premiere of Lai’s Xiangsheng play We Have a Comic Dialogue at the Eve of 2000 makes the face-to-face conversation between these two artists across the Taiwan Straits both possible and necessary. Beijing Youth Daily staff reporter Lu Yan made an interview with Jiang and Lai in Beijing.

Hostess: Mr. Jiang is a renowned Xiangsheng actor, while Mr. Lai is noted for his Xiangsheng play. So today, I invite the two of you to talk about the art of Xiangsheng.

Jiang: Before the conversation gets started, I feel that I am obligated to introduce Mr. Lai in detail. He is the father of the modern drama in Taiwan. To me, Mr. Lai’s Xiangsheng play sounds like the developed form of the so-called “civilized play,” which was between Xiangsheng and traditional operas, and were performed exclusively by traditional opera singers who had troubles with their voices. Strictly speaking, rather than being Xiangsheng purely, your play takes the form of Xiangsheng to enrich dramas. For example, we cannot call the play of Little Li Playing Darts a variety show since it tells a tale. In your plays, something like selfishness or cowardliness hidden at the bottom of people’s hearts has been exposed to some degree. In a nutshell, it is easy to provoke laughter, but it will be totally another matter to produce the comic effect in a circuitous and sarcastic way. That is the humor that I have found it in your plays.

Lai: My original purpose was not to perform Xiangsheng, but to look for something representing our precious tradition. Unexpectedly, I found this “something” in Xiangsheng. In other words, after long years’ exploration in solitude and agony, I eventually saw the sparkle of hope in the ashes of tradition.

Jiang: After watching your plays, I feel that you have already retrieved the essence of the traditional Xiangsheng: ridicule on human nature. The loss of this essence is the fundamental reason for the decline of Xiangsheng today. When reviewing his early movies in retrospect, Charlie Chaplin regretted that he had not made something deeper. However, we feel that the works of his earlier period including Modern Times are the best.

Lai: That is correct. Chaplin’s movies made during the 1920s are the best.

Jiang: Essentially, with its integrated form and content,Xiangsheng is able to bring out the humorous sense in one’s heart. For instance, there are over 30 pieces of comic dialogues, such as “Haircut,” “Riding-on-a-rickshaw”, “Taking a Bath”, etc., recounting farmers who pretend to know what they don’t know when first visiting a town. Right now I have a piece depicting the story of a young barber. The clumsy and careless barber shaved the eyebrow of an old customer who fell into sleep. He shouted at the old gentleman, “Wake up! Wake up! Do you want to keep your eyebrows or have them cut?” “What do you mean?” the gentleman asked astonishingly. “Of course I shall keep my eyebrows.” The barber said, “But I already shaved one of them.” “What a barber! Why should I keep the other one? You’d better shave them all!” the gentleman flied into a rage. The barber took out a pencil that was a rare object at that time. Then the old gentleman penciled his lost eyebrow and rested satisfied with it.

Lai: Very amusing! When was this comic dialogue first performed?

Jiang: Around 100 years ago. The key of its amusement lies in the creation of the characters, which lays bare their weakness and morbid mentality. By and large, the essence of Xiangsheng is humor.

Lai: I think that humor is also the source of Xiangsheng’s creation. Actually, all good comic dialogues draw the audience’s attention little by little rather than crack jokes in the right beginning. However, today’s audience has no patience. They cannot stay in their seats for 10 minutes to wait for something. During my current visit to Beijing, I was surprised particularly by the noises in a theatre.

Jiang: That is the result of the audience’s eating noodles served with fried bean sauce.

Lai: Furthermore, I found the northern dialects very amusing. I did not know that they could convey so many different meanings.

Jiang: Probably this is due to the varied cultural landscapes and rich social surroundings. For example, there once was a joke about a policeman directing traffic at his cage-like post. Seeing a grandpa’s failure in riding a bicycle after several tries on the street, the policeman shouts, “You’d better go back home to practice acrobatics.” The grandpa replied, “You’d better stay in your ‘cage.’”

Lai: Watching this scene on the spot must be very interesting.

Jiang: But passersby may not pay any attention to this sight. I suggest that Xiangsheng go back to the theater. It must be performed at the theater. An actor can be encouraged by the audience’s laughter to use all his skills on the stage.

Lai: Indeed, it is not a good idea to combine Xiangsheng with television.

Hostess: Mr. Lai, I happened to know the situation of Xiangsheng in Taiwan through the story that a Taiwan Xiangsheng actor was forced to go to the United States, earning a living by selling noodles served with beef. If that is the true situation of Xiangsheng in Taiwan, how could you rehearse and perform your Xiangsheng plays? And how much do you know of Xiangsheng in the mainland?

Lai: When rehearsing We Have a Comic Dialogue at the Eve of 2000 in Taiwan, since we did not have the opportunity to listen to Xiangsheng from the mainland, we could only play the tape of two Taiwan Xiangsheng players that we brought with us even when studying abroad. By the end of the 1980s, somebody smuggled the tape of Hou Baolin -- one of the most renowned players in the mainland -- into Taiwan. That’s a great matter then. I was filled with great admiration for Master Hou’s performing skills the moment I listened to his tape. Frankly speaking, I was greatly inspired by his Xiangsheng. What impressed me most is his “Buying Sesame Seed Cakes” that ends all of a sudden. I realized that it’s easy to raise a laugh, but not so easy to raise a “meaningful” laugh. I felt the mightiness of the tradition.

Jiang: That is the way of Xiangsheng performance. Once there were two old players performing a piece of comic dialogue about the sugar-coated haws on a stick -- popular refreshments in northern China. Later they went to southern China to perform this comic dialogue. Since the sugar-coated haws were called differently in the local dialect, the comedic effects of the comic dialogue lost its sense completely.

Lai: Mr. Jiang, I want to know how the art form of skit came into being in the mainland.

Jiang: It began with the theatrical training. For instance, the teacher set a topic: catching crickets. Then the students all prepared for this situation skit. Originally, what appeared on the stage was the mime skit that relies on gestures entirely. The performance of “Eating Noodles” shown at the Spring Festival party of 1984 created a precedent for the language skit. The credit for the real rise of the skit in the mainland around 1987 or 1988 should be given to performers from northeast China.

Lai: It is called short play in Taiwan.

Jiang: A short play could be either a tragedy or a comedy. But strictly speaking, a skit must be comedic, performed in an exaggerated style and with the Xiangsheng language. Obviously, to perform skits is easier than to perform Xiangsheng in which characters are created through a pure narrative.

Hostess: Mr. Jiang, given the unfavorable situation of the Xiangsheng market at present and the shrinking audience, do you think that the Xiangsheng performance can be continued in the new century?

Jiang: In my opinion, it is unnecessary to make too many examinations into Xiangsheng itself or place all hopes on a good medicine. If humor or sarcasm were not tolerated in our society, there would be no future for Xiangsheng in China. This awaits the enhancement of the quality of the whole nation so that someday people would make conscious efforts to satirize themselves. I have confidence in this day’s coming.

Lai: Sometimes I have pity on Chinese people since except Xiangsheng, there seem to be no other comedic art forms that can amuse the audience to such a degree.

(北京青年报 [Beijing Youth Daily], translated by Shao Da for china.org.cn, July 26, 2002)